Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Business English podcast. As promised, we have a very special guest for you. Joining us today on the podcast, we have Michael from the Level Up English podcast. Michael, how are you, sir?
[00:00:21] Speaker B: I am fantastic. Thank you so much for inviting me. Very happy to be here.
[00:00:26] Speaker A: Great. It's really good to have you here. Loving the content. We'll talk more about your channel and the magic that you produce a bit later on in this episode. But to the point of today's episode, we're going to be discussing the art of saying no, which isn't something that everybody can do that well, certainly in another language. In your experience, why do you think this is so important to get this right, especially in another language or another culture?
[00:00:54] Speaker B: I think it's so important because it means you're not sounding rude or you're not giving the wrong idea. I think especially in English because I can speak for British English specifically, where we can be so indirect that it's actually not that common just to say no. We often have a different phrase to soften the no or something like that. And if you are learning English and you come to the UK and then you just say no, I don't want that. It can sound a bit rude by accident. So it's quite important to understand the nuance and the subtle meaning changes in each phrase, isn't it?
[00:01:29] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's a really important point. You said you come to the uk, I think the Brits, and I think I can smash the Brits a little bit because I'm a native. I feel this idea of the Brits are terrible at being clear. They when they're trying to disagree or say no because it feels rude and that we're going to upset somebody else or they we're going to stand on their toes. Now, I don't know what your thoughts on this are, but somebody saying no to you, how do you feel personally if you asked for something and somebody just turned around and said no, I would feel horrible.
[00:02:05] Speaker B: I'm really bad with rejection anyway. And if it's that direct, I'm thinking about it for the rest of the day. It ruins my day, basically.
[00:02:13] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And we're not just talking about the language element here, but culturally as well. There are some cultures around the world that. That favor direct communication. I just. Just one off the top of my head, Eastern Europe can be quite direct in the way that they communicate. And in business English and business in general, there's a lot of yes and no going on. And so to be on the receiving end of a no can be quite uncomfortable. It's difficult to ascertain or to understand in English when somebody is saying no. Do you have any part, personal anecdotes of when you've been on the receiving end of a no and did you understand it clearly enough the first time? How was it displayed to you?
[00:02:54] Speaker B: I have many from other cultures because a lot of my friends and people I know are not from English speaking countries. I have many like that which I don't know is exactly what you're asking for. But for example, I'm learning Japanese. I've had quite a few Japanese friends over the years. They are way more indirect than even the Brits even really.
They basically don't use the word no in their language almost ever.
[00:03:23] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:03:24] Speaker B: And I think there's some similarity here with what we do sometimes where they won't say no, I don't want to see you. They might just be like, okay, yeah, let's do it another time. Yeah, let's see, let's see.
[00:03:34] Speaker A: Yes, yeah, let's see.
[00:03:36] Speaker B: To me I was like, okay, that's good, okay, we're going to meet up again or something like that. But then to them it means, no, I don't like you, let's not meet up again. So that's something I felt on different occasions.
[00:03:52] Speaker A: Let's see.
That reminds me of this very similar phrase which is we'll see, which I think, I think can sound quite threatening. I'd really like to go to the beach today and say we'll see.
[00:04:08] Speaker B: Will Scott.
[00:04:08] Speaker A: Yeah, it sounds quite sinister in a way. Sorry. So Japanese culture, let's see.
[00:04:15] Speaker B: That's one. And then if I try, I've got goldfish memory. So anything longer than two years ago, it's really hard to think of anything. The only one that came to mind from the uk, yeah, it's mostly by email, is when I was my early 20s or teen buying to lots of jobs because I was so shy. I failed. Like I totally flopped every interview.
I got a lot of emails in response to my interview and my job application and a lot of it was, I am afraid to say that you were not successful on this occasion. And it's a long way of just saying we don't want you. And that always hurt.
[00:04:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Very smooth delivery though I'm afraid to say yes. So we regret to inform you this sort of apologetic lead that. That's good. Okay. Okay.
[00:05:04] Speaker B: It's a good phrase, isn't it? Afraid to say like you're not really
[00:05:06] Speaker A: afraid this Masking, which is why I think it's so important. The subject today is that we mask a lot in. In British English, business English, because we don't want to offend anybody. So we're afraid to say. But like you say, they're not afraid to say. They're just trying to soften the impact of this. What about going the other way in terms of. Because I have an example here that use. That is used a lot in boardrooms. We hear it a lot in meetings. That's a great idea. It is certainly something we can think about at a later date to. To maybe somebody that's just listening to this conversation that was like, that's very positive and can't wait to move forward. That was a yes. But actually, what does that say to you? It's a great idea. It's certainly something we can think about at a later date. What would that translate to?
[00:05:51] Speaker B: I mean, there's a few elements that, like, certainly that sounds. It's almost like too positive. It doesn't sound genuine. And also at a later date, that's the big red flag, right?
[00:06:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:02] Speaker B: Why not now? So, yeah, to me it sounds like they're just saying, okay, thank you for sharing, but I don't like your idea, or something like that. But they don't want to be so blunt.
[00:06:13] Speaker A: You heard it here first, Pete. That was a good decoding of this phrase. Yeah. I would say thanks, but no thanks. Yeah, this idea, great idea. But later, slash, never. Good. Yeah. So that's the example I had about this idea of saying no in English. And it's very difficult to decode if you're on the receiving end. But do you potentially have any phrases that you could share that would allow the audience to. To say no in a polite, professional manner?
[00:06:41] Speaker B: I'm afraid not. No.
[00:06:43] Speaker A: No, Nothing at all. No, absolutely not.
[00:06:45] Speaker B: That was my joke there.
[00:06:46] Speaker A: So I absolutely love that. Yeah, we're going to put in a round of applause on this bit. That was great.
[00:06:52] Speaker B: You can see me smiling as I thought of that, like, trying not to laugh.
[00:06:56] Speaker A: But.
[00:06:56] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, that could be. I know I mentioned it already, but that could be one. I'm afraid not.
[00:07:00] Speaker A: I'm afraid not.
[00:07:01] Speaker B: And it's just an expression.
[00:07:03] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:07:03] Speaker B: It just sounds a bit more polite, but it's unfortunately not, isn't it?
[00:07:07] Speaker A: Yeah, unfortunately, I'm afraid not. It just softens the idea of this. This negative response. I'm afraid not. Are there any more that you have so afraid not is pretty clear, but it is a little bit softer than no Anything else?
[00:07:22] Speaker B: How about, this is an interesting phrase. I will have to pass.
Maybe somewhat casual, but I'll have to pass.
[00:07:30] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
That's quite common, isn't it? This very smooth delivery. Would you like some more vegetables?
I'll have to pass. Pass me the steak. Something like, very smooth delivery. Yeah, I will have to pass.
I like this one and I think it's suitable for the office. Definitely a polite way to decline in the office. Yeah, yeah.
[00:07:53] Speaker B: It's an interesting one because it's like, I'll have to. Like, you don't have to, but you want to pass. But we just say, yeah, because it sounds, I guess it's taking your desire away from it. It's not your choice. Oh, it's happening. Oh, I'm passing. Look at that.
[00:08:08] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, I'll have to.
I'll have to pass. It's like you said, there's this obligation, like I have to do it. Good. This idea of, on this occasion, I'll have to say no.
A slight modification of this phrase, on this occasion, I'll have to say no. Which doesn't make you out to be such a bad person because you're just saying it's limited to now, but maybe ask me again in the future. On this occasion, I'll have to pass. Yeah, no, that's very, very good. Any others?
[00:08:39] Speaker B: I think a common way is. What could we say? I don't know if this is sandwiching exactly like having a good thing and a bad thing, but softening the rejection or the no with a phrase before.
But that sounds great, but I appreciate your offer, but I am unable to accept something like that. So I guess that structure can be used in many ways. That's a common way.
[00:09:05] Speaker A: Absolutely. It's almost like the professional feedback technique, the sandwich technique, where you have really good bits. The bit that's important and negative and a really good bit. You're a great worker at the company. It's a pleasure to have you here for so long. You're working too slowly and we really hope to see a great improvement in the future. A fantastic job, you think?
[00:09:26] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:09:27] Speaker A: Was that a compliment or was that some sort of critique? But yeah. So this. But I like. That's a great piece of advice to listen for the pivots in the sentence as you transition the. The next clause. Because it could all be positive up until that. But you've had a great year. We're really interested in doing business with you, but. And then you know that it's going to take a turn for the worse. Yeah, yeah. Nice.
[00:09:52] Speaker B: I heard a good tip before, which was if you're. If you're the one delivering the message, try to use. And instead. Because it sounds less trusting. Right. You're a great worker. And this other thing, you could do some improvement. But also. But I said but anyway, I'm not good at it.
[00:10:08] Speaker A: This idea. You said could, which is. I'm writing it in the chat. Okay. Yeah. We're on a. We're on a session.
[00:10:14] Speaker B: Could.
[00:10:14] Speaker A: Yes. This idea of using should, could, would, softening the idea. Or these modal verbs really help you soften a negative reply in the. No, I think that's a really good highlight as well. Yeah.
[00:10:28] Speaker B: It's almost like going back in the past. Right. Rather than will we go back to would.
[00:10:33] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:10:34] Speaker B: I think generally when you can go into the past or make things more indirect, you're literally putting time between what you're saying and the situation. And I think that makes it polite, doesn't it?
[00:10:45] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:10:46] Speaker B: What's an example of that? If you had some time, we would use that condition. If you had the time, would you. Something like that. Rather than have. In some cases where it can just sound a bit too forceful because it's in the present.
Maybe that's not the best example. Maybe you have.
[00:11:01] Speaker A: I get. I get where that could go. Where you have this. I would have loved to.
I would have loved to.
But the implication is you can't because you're doing something else. Oh, wonder. Sounds like a wonderful afternoon. Visiting the mother in law. I would have loved to. And then you don't need to say anything else because the implication is you're definitely not going to attend a picnic with the mother in law. Yeah. Very good.
Don't make it too complicated because there is a joke on Pirates of the Caribbean. Have you seen this film? Don't ask me which one. I love them all.
[00:11:36] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:38] Speaker A: Barbossa, is it, Captain? The guy with the squids thing going on.
[00:11:42] Speaker B: I don't think that's Barbosa, but I forgot his name now. The octopus guy.
[00:11:47] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Okay. I'm embarrassing myself now. But this idea of he says no, go on.
[00:11:54] Speaker B: Davy Jones.
[00:11:55] Speaker A: I think Davy Jones, is it where he says, I will this. I'm disinclined to acquiesce to your request. Yeah. It means no. And I think this is a really good way of demonstrating that if you hide behind your words or bury it or frame it in too much politeness, then you're going to lose all meaning. So it's very important to balance this and I think this. The phrases that you've provided today are excellent. Are excellent.
[00:12:26] Speaker B: I think essentially the more like the longer the sentence becomes, the politer it is. Like very generally that. That usually makes sense, doesn't it?
[00:12:34] Speaker A: That's a really good rule. Yeah. Make your sentence longer and just bury any negativity with lots of words. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, that's very good.
So, yeah, in summary, the art of saying no, why is it important? We don't want to offend anybody. Certainly within the British or business cultures, the idea is to keep it short and sweet, but fairly obvious that it's going to be negative. And we've offered some great phrases today to help with that. Saying it in a professional context. Any final thoughts, Michael, before we sign off?
[00:13:05] Speaker B: Once again, I'm afraid I'll have to give it a miss. I'm afraid.
I'm afraid I don't have any final thoughts.
[00:13:11] Speaker A: Yes, once again, I'll have to give it a miss. Yeah. Performing at a high level until the end. That's fantastic. I just want to say it's a pleasure to have you on the podcast. Where can people find more of your great material, Michael?
[00:13:23] Speaker B: Basically you can search for the Level Up English podcast. We are on any podcast app and YouTube as well. And of course there's a website and stuff like that. But yeah, basically that's all you need to remember. Level Up English podcast, great stuff.
[00:13:38] Speaker A: That's fantastic. I will be sure to put it in the show notes so people can find you easily. Thanks ever so much for your time, Michael, and hopefully we can do this again sometime.
[00:13:47] Speaker B: Yeah. I hope to say thank you so much.
[00:13:48] Speaker A: It's been fun, great stuff. See you soon.
[00:13:51] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:13:52] Speaker A: Bye.
